Episode 135 - SHE WALKS IN BEAUTY

[Lisal]

This was a great discussion that I am sorry to have missed. I really enjoyed all the insights.

I can't see Adam beating either of his brothers the way Hoss did him in SWIB. For one thing, he's the oldest and he grew up with them always being littler and younger so to use his full force on them was out of the question. For another, Adam is very good at self-restraint. I think he'd be more apt to tear his brothers apart with words than with fists - if he were to try and tear them apart at all. I agree with Julianna - he loved his little brothers and big brothers do look at their younger siblings differently than vice versa.

Which is one reason Hoss may have lost it so violently with Adam. Somewhere in Hoss's mind, Adam was probably seen as invincible and no matter how much he punched him and took his frustrations out on him, deep down Hoss figured Adam could withstand anything.

[Adamant]

Things never have a simple reason. Hoss tossing Adam around the empty bunkhouse is the result of all the frustration that has probably built up over years (if one is to assume the writers are considering that these are grown men!) and then the worst sin a "brother" can commit against another! Earlier, when Regan and Amelia ride away, (it always bothers me that one of the C's doesn't ride along to ensure they make it home safely) Hoss tells Adam that Regan is his--he distinctly states it. But Hoss also wants Adam's approval of Regan, wanted them to meet and even discuss mutual friends. And then, handsome older brother, who always gets every girl he's ever wanted, betrays him. That's why Hoss is in such a rage. Betrayal is the worst sin of all, according even to Dante who has Judas, Cassius and Brutus being constantly gnawed on, one in each of three mouths. And nothing hurts more than betrayal. That's why Hoss is so enraged.

[Lisal]

Things never have a simple reason. Hoss tossing Adam around the empty bunkhouse is the result of all the frustration that has probably built up over years (if one is to assume the writers are considering that these are grown men!) and then the worst sin a "brother" can commit against another! Earlier, when Regan and Amelia ride away, (it always bothers me that one of the C's doesn't ride along to ensure they make it home safely) Hoss tells Adam that Regan is his--he distinctly states it. But Hoss also wants Adam's approval of Regan, wanted them to meet and even discuss mutual friends. And then, handsome older brother, who always gets every girl he's ever wanted, betrays him. That's why Hoss is in such a rage. Betrayal is the worst sin of all, according even to Dante who has Judas, Cassius and Brutus being constantly gnawed on, one in each of three mouths. And nothing hurts more than betrayal. That's why Hoss is so enraged.

No doubt.

I agree about the years of frustration and how hard it must've been to watch Adam be oft-pursued and desired. Then add to it a younger brother who is also very pretty (as they said in "The Ape") and you have a middle child feeling left out or ignored by women, even if it wasn't always the case. And as much as Hoss could stay cheerful and shrug things off, I'm sure it hurt deep down.

And about betrayal. SO true. It's one thing to get cheated on (speaking in real time, here), it's a double slap in the face to have your rival be a friend - much less a sibling. I don't question his rage at all. I wonder though - would he have beat Joe as violently? Or would he have restrained himself?

Interesting things to think about!

[Drifter]

... And then, handsome older brother, who always gets every girl he's ever wanted ...

And even gets the girls he doesn’t necessarily want (Melinda, Beatrice, and this time Ragan). No, it certainly doesn’t make it easier for Hoss. I can imagine the jealousy when Joe was still a boy while Hoss was just coming of age, and older brother came home from college.

And honestly, I get what Adam was trying to “prove,” but I almost think he should’ve stayed out of it or let some other guy end up responsible. If Hoss got angry it wouldn’t have been him. She wasn’t pursuing him, but obviously he knew her reputation and likely knew others, so he couldn’t have been naive. Surely in time another guy would try his hand and then she’d eventually expose herself anyway. But I get it, Adam figured his brother would’ve gotten hurt sooner or later, and Hoss didn’t exactly listen to him or Joe when it came to Helen in The Courtship. At least these guys don’t hold grudges!

[Tracy]

Earlier, when Regan and Amelia ride away, (it always bothers me that one of the C's doesn't ride along to ensure they make it home safely) . . .

@Adamant I agree. Not to mention that realistically, it would take hours and hours to ride on horseback from where the Ponderosa is supposed to be located to Virginia City -- let alone in a buggy! Amelia would have demanded a male escort back to town.

[Lisal]

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And honestly, I get what Adam was trying to “prove,” but I almost think he should’ve stayed out of it or let some other guy end up responsible. If Hoss got angry it wouldn’t have been him. She wasn’t pursuing him, but obviously he knew her reputation and likely knew others, so he couldn’t have been naive. Surely in time another guy would try his hand and then she’d eventually expose herself anyway. But I get it, Adam figured his brother would’ve gotten hurt sooner or later, and Hoss didn’t exactly listen to him or Joe when it came to Helen in The Courtship. At least these guys don’t hold grudges!

I know they kissed and the boys had to fight for drama's sake but I would rather they'd have written it so that she had approached Adam about her past (ie "Ok, I know you know about me, Adam - can I ask you to stay quiet, please?" ) either in town or maybe somehow at the ranch - rather than Adam going to her house. It would've made Adam a lot less nosy and intrusive and a lot more understandable.

[Adamant]

I know they kissed and the boys had to fight for drama's sake but I would rather they'd have written it so that she had approached Adam about her past (ie "Ok, I know you know about me, Adam - can I ask you to stay quiet, please?" ) either in town or maybe somehow at the ranch - rather than Adam going to her house. It would've made Adam a lot less nosy and intrusive and a lot more understandable.

@Lisal And there would have been no tension that holds the viewer waiting to see what happens next. No, the conflict--just as it is written--is necessary to show Regan's character. She had told Amelia she could handle Adam because he's a man. Amelia laughed, knowing at last, that Regan had met her match. Had Regan been open and forthcoming with Adam, it would have made Adam less nosy and intrusive but the situation would have been SOOOOOOO boring. Better she try to seduce Adam and fail. Then all her fury comes out and she shows her true colors (lavender and purple! ) Besides, Adam is the big brother and can't help but look out for Hoss. He wants to cut Regan off and give her the chance to come clean but she doesn't. Now we can really hate her! The manipulative "witch".

As Eleanor Criswell Hanna Roberts said in her taped interview, a dear friend (PR?) once told her, "Where there is no conflict, there is no drama." Have to have that conflict!

[Lisal]

I know they kissed and the boys had to fight for drama's sake but I would rather they'd have written it so that she had approached Adam about her past (ie "Ok, I know you know about me, Adam - can I ask you to stay quiet, please?" ) either in town or maybe somehow at the ranch - rather than Adam going to her house. It would've made Adam a lot less nosy and intrusive and a lot more understandable.

@Lisal And there would have been no tension that holds the viewer waiting to see what happens next. No, the conflict--just as it is written--is necessary to show Regan's character. She had told Amelia she could handle Adam because he's a man. Amelia laughed, knowing at last, that Regan had met her match. Had Regan been open and forthcoming with Adam, it would have made Adam less nosy and intrusive but the situation would have been SOOOOOOO boring. Better she try to seduce Adam and fail. Then all her fury comes out and she shows her true colors (lavender and purple! ) Besides, Adam is the big brother and can't help but look out for Hoss. He wants to cut Regan off and give her the chance to come clean but she doesn't. Now we can really hate her! The manipulative "witch".

As Eleanor Criswell Hanna Roberts said in her taped interview, a dear friend (PR?) once told her, "Where there is no conflict, there is no drama." Have to have that conflict!

I agree about conflict - it is a must have or else there is no story. I was just considering the idea of having her trying to seduce Adam at a different point in time (going for it before he came to her house). I see what you mean about both Adam's big brother nature and Amelia's part in the drama and in retrospect, the episode works well the way it is so why should I try and change it? Plus - Hoss seeing Adam actually at Regan's house probably added to his fury (thinking Adam had gone there looking for that). Had he witnessed it at the ranch or in town, his reaction may have been a bit more tempered.

[Wing1610]

Inspired by the previous discussion, I watched this episode again.

I always ask myself: Did Hoss have any reason to go back to the Millers' house after he was there that morning to offer his invitation?

I especially like DB's facial expressions in the living room, after the fight. First there is still a lot of anger, then, in particular when Ben enters, he comes to the realization that perhaps he has gone too far. Then Hoss shows defiance and tries to avoid the confrontation with Ben. No words are needed.

When Regan talks to Hoss about the afternoon while dancing and says "I couldn't stop him", I always shake my head at Hoss' reply "I know". Is that how he really thinks about his brother? And then I'm relieved that Regan is briefly unsettled, hearing that Ben already knows about that afternoon´s incident. Now she has to retreat.

[Lisal]

Inspired by the previous discussion, I watched this episode again.

I always ask myself: Did Hoss have any reason to go back to the Millers' house after he was there that morning to offer his invitation?

I especially like DB's facial expressions in the living room, after the fight. First there is still a lot of anger, then, in particular when Ben enters, he comes to the realization that perhaps he has gone too far. Then Hoss shows defiance and tries to avoid the confrontation with Ben. No words are needed.

When Regan talks to Hoss about the afternoon while dancing and says "I couldn't stop him", I always shake my head at Hoss' reply "I know". Is that how he really thinks about his brother? And then I'm relieved that Regan is briefly unsettled, hearing that Ben already knows about that afternoon´s incident. Now she has to retreat.

Oh yeah! I forgot about the "I couldn't stop him" line. And you're right - that's a bit of a slam if Hoss said "I know" intentionally and not just to placate her. It's bad enough for him to believe Adam seduced his girl but to believe he forced himself on her? Nope. I think Hoss went deaf for a moment.